IIE PACE Podcast: Episode 7
IIE PACE Podcast: Episode 7
The Landscape of Indigenous Education and Healthcare
Guest Speakers: Dalton LaBarge, MD and Christina Mulé, PhD.
Recording Date: August 28th, 2024
[Announcer]
We acknowledge with respect the Seneca Nation known as the Great Hill People and keepers of the western door of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy. We take this opportunity to thank the people on whose ancestral lands The University of Rochester currently resides in Rochester, New York. To learn more about ancestral lands. Upon which we live and work. Please check out native-land.ca.
[Mary Beth Ebersol]
Hello, everyone. I'm Mary Beth Ebersol. I'm the Director of Continuing Medical Education for the Institute for Innovative Education. And welcome to our podcast. Today we have Christina Mule and Dolphin Labarge with us. Could you both please introduce yourselves and share what your role is at the University of Rochester?
[Dalton Labarge]
Sure. Christina, do you want to start?
[Christina Mulé]
Sure. Thanks, Dalton. So, I'm Christina Mulé. I'm a pediatric psychologist at the University of Rochester. I sit within the Division of Developmental Behavioral Pediatrics. Just personal background, I am a second generation Korean American. I grew up south of Syracuse in a small town called Lafayette near Onondaga Nation. And I'm now practicing developmental behavioral peds within Onondaga Nation now. That's what brings me to this conversation. Thank you for the invite and I will pass it to Dalton.
[Dalton Labarge]
My name is Sanjay Dalton Labarge. I'm a PGY2 emergency medicine resident here at Strong. Originally from the Akwesasne Mohawk Nation and grew up between there and here in Rochester.
[Mary Beth Ebersol]
Thank you for both sharing your backgrounds. So, to start, could you please give us a brief lesson into the background of Indigenous communities in this area?
[Dalton Labarge]
It's difficult to say who exactly, like whose land this was. Because I consider it to be Our homeland, even though I'm Ganyakahaga or mohawk. It's really… the land of the Lotino Suni Umwe. The families, the 49 titled families who came together to form a confederacy just to remind each other what it is to live with a good mind and to live in peace across this land that is now New York State and further north into Quebec, east to the Northern Atlantic and the northern South all the way to Kentucky. We as a collective of families formed reciprocal relationships and political identities that were founded on how to steward this land, how to protect this land and to make it better for future generations. So today we say that this is the unceded land of the Onondaga people, the Seneca people. And that is true. A lot of Seneca people lived here and there were principally Seneca villages here. And we still have a lot of Seneca's who live in this area. But many of those original Seneca people have been moved to territories west of here, Tonawanda Creek. Allegheny, Salamanca, those settlements out west. And similarly, other Lotino Suni Umwe people have been moved to much smaller territories throughout Canada, like in Brantford, Ontario. Six Nations settlement there. Tyendinaga, Akwasasne, Caughnawaga, Kahnawake. All of those places. So, there are a lot fewer settlements here in New York State now. After our people were removed during the Sullivan Campaigns after the Revolutionary War. But there's still quite a few communities here who call like Rochester home. There's a lot of Mohawks here, surprisingly. Because this was a big ironworking town. And so, there's a lot of culturally Mohawk people living in traditionally Seneca lands.
[Mary Beth Ebersol]
Thank you. Thanks for sharing that background. Very helpful. We want to look at education. What disparities exist in education for indigenous communities and what historical factors have contributed to the current disparities?
[Christina Mulé]
I can take a stab at this and Dalton, I invite you to add more information. I think it's important for people to know that there are 13 contracting school districts in the state of New York that serve Native American students. And all students are entitled to a free and appropriate education. But when you think, and some people know that as FAPE, when you think about free and appropriate education for indigenous students, you know, like, what does that mean? What are the values and priorities of Indigenous peoples when it comes to education and how do we make sure that those things are available for indigenous students? I think historically we can all just say that this wasn't well done. Many…all children were forced into, well, maybe I should say many, maybe all is a little overgeneralizing. We saw students be forced into settler, Western education models that stripped them of their culture and their language. And now I think that we're seeing that we're seeing school districts recognize the importance of making culture and language available to Indigenous students and so you're seeing more dedicated teachers and curriculum resources to making or ensuring that those opportunities are available for Indigenous students. I think because of These inequities in education, educational settings were places where a lot of places where Indigenous students didn't feel welcome or supported and I think it contributes to some students having stopped in their education pursuit. And so, some Native students you know, didn't complete their education for high school, for example, or even higher ed. And so, you see disparities and, you know, I'm particularly interested in and getting more indigenous students involved in medicine. And you can see that there's a significant discrepancy or disparity in the number of Native American physicians, nurses, et cetera. And so, why is that? I think it’s; you know, it goes back to environmental, you know, these educational settings just not being places where Indigenous students felt welcome.
[Dalton Labarge]
Yeah, I agree with you, Christina. That when you think about the trajectory of what it takes to become a physician it is it's way, it's so much, right? You have to..so as a native kid, you have to commit to leaving. Because you're not going to go to medical school by your territory or by your people. So, you're giving up your connection to your people. And, you know, everyone's like, well, it's temporary and you're gonna, you're going to gain skills and come back while, you know, that's a long time to be away. For a lot of us, that's just not feasible. It speaks to that deep, that deep wound in our communities that was left over from these acculturation institutions that took our, that tore our families apart under the guise of education, right? It is still difficult for us to send our children who we think are like our most precious gifts, it's really difficult to send them to send them into the institution and think that we'll be getting them back, unharmed or unchanged. It's a really, it's an uphill battle because we are trying to undo all of those decades, all of that like really entrenched legacy of the residential schools and part of that looks like healing within our own community and finding ways to readapt that idea of higher ed or pursuing advanced training and using it and in like culturally specific and appropriate settings right so like developing programming that sort of is operated on community or by the community and that uses language, uses experiences from community members to reframe that goal of higher ed in a way that feels safe and inviting to families. And in a way that also offers real hardline dollars and cents to support individuals in these endeavors because the truth of the matter is, like I think back to my own like pathway as a as a student and if there wasn't financial aid, if there wasn't the ability to like get some assistance to do this, that would have been absolutely impossible for me. And I know that that's true for many of our Ongweoweh students because the reality is many of us have lived in manufactured poverty for so long. That it's not feasible to expect even like, you know a student to cover the cost of uh of staying in a hotel room for five weeks for an educational experience is too much to ask. And so, I see a lot of these programs and initiatives that are thinking about like how do we support and recruit Native students, but then they don't have the financial backing to cover costs for travel and lodging and food and things that, you know, would be taking like, that would be offered to our students at home because we have that, you know, we have each other at home. So, there's no worry about where you're going to sleep or how you're going to eat or how you're going to get around because there's always going to be a someone who can help you with that. But when you take our students away from that safety network, away from their communities. It can be very, very difficult to meet those needs and it's not something we always think about when we, you know. We think about tuition and books and resources, right?
[Christina Mulé]
If I could just add to that too, Dalton. I just want to kind of give a shout out to Syracuse University and Upstate Medical Center because I think they're doing this really well. The Promise Scholarship is an opportunity for Indigenous students to pursue undergraduate studies with a full scholarship and Dr. Dewan, who's the president of upstate Medical Center, he just pledged opportunities for indigenous students to attend medical school at no cost and offers a stipend and all the things that Dalton just talked about. It's more than just the tuition reimbursement, it's really the full package that one needs to be successful, right? It's not just covering the tuition expenses. You have to be able to survive otherwise to be able to eat and you know have reasonable accommodations to get through medical school. And I also wanted to just add…well, before I get off this point, I do want to say that I hope that, you know, Syracuse is leading by example, but I hope that other universities in the upstate area across the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, that they notice this and that they try to match or do better than what they're doing now because we've talked about the disparity the number of Indigenous physicians and healthcare providers and particularly in this area, given the population, we have to do better. So, I'm hopeful that perhaps even the university that we are members of that someone will take notice and will actually make a commitment that is more than words so…
[Dalton Labarge]
Yeah.
[Christina Mulé]
…but I also…go ahead, Dalton.
[Dalton Labarge]
No, it's a sensitive subject, I think because maybe we're waiting even for the words. Because what was it two years ago, the university leadership seemed to have some momentum around this matter and pulled together a Native American affairs working group that consisted of stakeholders from all across the university. So undergrad, med center, Eastman, various schools affiliated with the university and also formed a community stakeholders group that was that were representatives of Lotino Suni Umwe communities and local community members work together to draft recommendations on how to implement a lot of these things, right? This draft was submitted to the university leadership and there has been no formal response or actions taken from this document. So, we spent a long time, we spent an entire year forming recommendations from a joint effort. And so, you know, if someone's listening to this and is getting inspired to do this sort of work, it's already done. Someone just has to read it and like put the things into action, which is, you know. I don't mean to sound flippant about it, but man, it's frustrating from my perspective. It's like what again and again and again, we get called upon do this work and to answer these questions and it just feels like performative to me. It's really, it's tough to put all of that effort and pull all of these people together and then it's just like a report on a shelf Yeah. So, we're waiting.
[Christina Mulé Mule]
Waiting with you, Dalton. One more point that I wanted to add about Indigenous students pursuing medicine, we can, I think we see successful examples of indigenous folks making their way through their way medical school training and getting out and getting into the field and into the field and participating as healthcare workers and leading as healthcare workers. But I also just want to mention that the number of Indigenous physicians, healthcare workers who stay in academic medicine, are far fewer. One, because academic medical centers are fewer, right? But two, they're not, again, near their communities and it forces people to be away from their families and their communities but also the environment of academic medicine is very rigorous and it's difficult to balance, you know, professional, personal lives. The commitment is like ever growing. I hope that there are in the future opportunities and ways that we can retain indigenous providers to stay within academic medicine because we need them. And I think it's how we're going to address some of the issues that just the inequities and access and quality of care for Indigenous people. I just want to make that plug to try and make some more efforts to people in academic medicine, so we can train other people to be better doctors and healthcare providers.
[Mary Beth Ebersol]
Absolutely. And I know you mentioned positive examples with SUNY Upstate and Syracuse University and then, you know, I think Christina, you mentioned about curriculum and resources and Dalton, you mentioned about programming and resources needed and changes. Can you share any examples of school districts besides universities that are doing particularly well in creating inclusive and equitable environments for Indigenous students.
[Christina Mulé]
Dalton, do you want to take a stab at this, or would you like me to go first?
[Dalton Labarge]
Yeah, if you want, you could maybe speak to what's going on in Onondaga.
[Christina Mulé]
Yeah, there's a lot going on in Onondaga. You know, I think Onondaga is trying to ensure that language and culture are prioritized. I should also give some overview. So, Onondaga has a K-8 school that exclusively educates children who live on the nation, but also live off territory who are Onondaga. Once those students graduate from the K-8 school, they go up to the Lafayette Central School District where they're integrated with non-nation students. But in the K-8 building, I do believe that there have been some concerted efforts to increase culture and language opportunities for students. And I know just broadly across the state, I think that I think the concept of education sovereignty is really gaining more traction in school districts that that are supporting or that these Indigenous schools reside within. It's a complicated system to explain. But I know Salamanca is receiving a lot of accolades for the work that they've done. They have a Native American curriculum team, and they are really leading by example. And that's not to discount the work that many other districts are doing. I think everyone is doing the best that they can with what resources they have. And again, these are schools that are having to overcome a lot of historical trauma within education. And there's just so much work to do. And I do believe that everyone is truly doing the best that they can.
[Dalton Labarge]
Yeah, we have a very similar model in Awkasasne. There's the Awkasasne Freedom School. So similarly, it's a K-8 cultural immersion like focused curriculum and so they're meeting their New York State K-8 requirements but delivered through our worldviews and our language. I think that those students go on to do so well in the world Because they have because they a really strong foundation of who they are and where they come from. And it's that. It's that understanding that makes our students resilient and able to take on anything, but certainly able to take on rigorous academic training or medical training. And so it's those models of programs that I think we should be paying our most attention to, in looking at like the long game of education and teaching our future generations and creating systems that are uh that have longevity to them.
[ Mary Beth Ebersol]
Thank you. Moving on from education, it’s so important. Another obviously important topic is healthcare. So, can you provide an overview of the current state of health care for Indigenous communities in the United States?
[Dalton Labarge]
Yeah. On paper it looks so dire. Like we're the where the top performers and all of the things you don't want to be a top performer in. And I don't mean to make light of it. But it's just funny to, like I was just talking about this with uh with someone, with one of my elders and elders I was like, man, on paper, we all sound pretty sick. But, you know, in the lives that we're living day to day that it doesn't feel that way, right? So, it's just it's like…the tension is that if you look at the data it, we certainly have an overrepresentation completing suicide. Like mental health concerns and suicidality are prevalent in an overrepresented way and in communities all over the US and Canada. It's one thing that it's so interesting to me that And I guess it speaks to the truth that indigeneity has nothing to do with race and everything to do with community and kinship because there is if you look at communities across like all the way up to the arctic on all the way down to the desert communities, you know, who genetically or racially, I guess you'd say, are quite different from one another, but who were exposed to this similar condition called settler colonialism and capitalism. And we're all suffering in the same way from it. Right? Like the rates of these conditions are similar across communities who are by maybe the rule of the rule of like sanguinity or quote unquote like purity are similar, which is just very interesting to me. And so, to me it proves again the point that, you know, our high rates of cancer, our high rates of heart disease or high rates of chronic illness, are the result of manufactured oppression. You know, my grandparents grew their own food on Cornwall Island. They didn't ask for the town of Cornwall to build Domtar, the paper bleaching plant, across the river that spewed sulfur ash onto their farm fields every day. You know, nobody in Akwasane was asking for GM to set up You know, right on the border of our territory and dump paint into our water system for decades. And no one asked for, you know, Alcoa to come in and do aluminum manufacturing right again on the border of our territory. These were all decisions that were made by people with influence and the result is that you know you go down the road on Cornwall Island and you would knock on a door and you would meet a woman in every house in her like early 40s or younger who had cervical and endometrial cancer and was now no longer like a reproductive person. You know, these are like terrible realities. They're hard to… they're really hard to hold space for because we didn't ask for…we didn't ask for the things that are making this reality happen, right? Like nobody asked to live in a biohazard waste zone, but it was forced upon us. And this is the same pretty much across the land, you know. Our communities were put onto like less desirable plots of land so that we would be dealt with by containment and then the next step was to just put whatever extractionary industry or, you know, something that you wouldn't want to expose your own citizens to just put it over by the res, you know? And that's it's like the legacy of trauma and harm and that it's just like, it's just it's like cycling. It's reproducing and reproducing and reproducing and we are, you know, fighting day in and day out to clean the land right to clean to clean our bodies, to clean our minds, right? Because that's how we're going to tackle these health disparities is internally. Like we're going to we're going to heal ourselves from things that were put upon us because what's happening in our communities, especially as we're taking back our languages and taking back, you know, like we're remembering, we're remembering our languages. And through those languages, we are remembering a lot of original ways of being in this world and those are the things that are giving us the strength to take on these almost impossible legacies that have been handed down to us from settlement.
[Mary Beth Ebersol]
Christina, yeah, go ahead.
[Christina Mulé]
Yeah, I think Dalton you painted a really like important picture for how these health disparities came about. And I just feel like it's really important to also mention that there are so many factors that further exacerbate the existing health disparities, which is like access to health care right like Some folks just don't timely access to appropriate care. And, you know, like when I think about my work in Onondaga Nation, like there's a small nation health clinic. It hasn't received a budget increase in over 13 years. It's drastically underfunded. And when you go into the health clinic, it feels like archaic, right? Like we It's 2024. We are using electronic medical health records now. I still see paper charts in there. It's like a blast from the past. These folks are some of the most empathic, kind, caring people that work there and they give everything they have. In that job and you know they're just, they're undercompensated, and retention is so hard because of the compensation inequities. And so, there's this turnover, which results in you know you know, in poor care, just to be frank. And then, you know, going beyond like what's available on the nation, right? Like they have just general primary care. And then if you need a specialist, you have to get a referral and go off territory for care. Folks In the outside community know the reimbursement rates for IHS and Medicaid are so poor, they don't always accept those referrals. And then those referrals wait lists are so long. So, it's like you have these existing health disparities, which get further exacerbated by the systems that we've put in place that we think are helpful. You know, it's better than nothing, but it's not the best. It's not equitable. I think also we have to recognize, the historical trauma and exploitation that contributes to folks not wanting to get medical care, right? So, there was so much unethical behavior within like medical research at one point. And I think Indigenous people were exploited and you have family members who go back several generations who've taught their children not to trust. Doctors and healthcare providers, right? So, then you get folks who don't want to get care. Who have an ailment who say, oh, it's no big deal. Like it'll go away, right? So, they neglect the issue, and it just gets worse and worse. So, I think, these points are also just helpful to keep in mind. And again, one of, going back to like why it's so important to get indigenous healthcare providers in the field and making care more accessible and just better overall. It's so important.
[Mary Beth Ebersol]
And I know you've both touched on this a little bit, but what are some of the most pressing health issues facing Indigenous communities. And I know Dalton, you talked about it and Christine, you talked a little bit anything else that you want to add to that question?
[Christina Mulé]
To that question. I'll just say like, just to make a plug for my own work, developmental behavioral pediatrics you know they're Native kids are being disproportionately identified with developmental and behavioral concerns and you know this this includes, ADHD, fetal alcohol spectrum disorders, learning disabilities, autism, and I don't know what to make of these data. I'm not sure that the incidence of developmental or behavioral issues are actually higher within Indigenous communities. If you know native communities, data sovereignty is really important. And so, a lot of folks won't participate in research And so, you know, like potentially there are some statisticians out there who are using some crazy predictive models right that are helping us to understand these rates but I guess the rates are neither here nor there for me. The biggest issue for me is that we're seeing kids who have developmental and behavioral concerns, and I just want to make sure that through my work, we're making care accessible and culturally appropriate, so that kids and families do feel like there's help out there and that getting the help actually helps them to have brighter futures. So yeah, I guess I’ll leave it there.
[Mary Beth Ebersol]
No, thank you. For all this important work that you are doing. Dalton, anything to add?
[Dalton Labarge]
Yeah, I think that erasure is always a big issue for how native folks engage in any higher, like any institution, you know, healthcare is especially notorious for misidentifying Native people in their electronic medical records. And so, you know just in the emergency room alone this year, I've corrected the demographics for about 20 people and this is both like non-Indigenous people who are erroneously labeled as, I think it's American Indian in the EMR. And then folks who I know to be Ongweoweh, who are Caucasian or Hispanic, you know, who are listed as some other category. And so, you know, one of the issues we come up against in trying to do retrospective research or chart reviews and looking at data associated with that category of American Indian Native American and the EMR is that the data is flawed because of this. And so, as clinicians in the EMR who are, you know, we're safeguards of the EMR. Something that I think I tell everyone, which is the low hanging fruit, which is if someone, you know, if someone, and it comes up and you notice that their chart does not reflect that, you can change that. You can have that discussion with them, but you can change it, right? So we are, you know, overseeing our own internal data as well.
[Mary Beth Ebersol]
This does lead into how do you both feel healthcare providers and institutions better respect and incorporate Indigenous cultural practices and beliefs into their care? So, thinking about providers and institutions. And you've touched a little bit on it, but thoughts on that question?
[Dalton Larbarge]
Christina, I'm curious how your practice has changed working in Onondaga.
[Christina Mulé]
Yeah, it's an interesting question. I think for me what I have personally changed as a provider…what's different for me, it's not that it's changed, but I notice the importance of community so much more and being a part of the community is being essential to the work, to the clinical work. I spend time in the community, like at the Firekeeper's Diner, for example, and I think, you know, I'm having this leisurely lunch and it just feels so lavish working in healthcare right to like sit down and have like lunch at a diner in the middle of the day, but What I found is actually that's like doing the real work. When I sit in the diner, people come up to me, they talk to me like, what are you doing here on the nation or like I run into people that I do know, and they'll say you know so-and-so is having this problem, what do you think I should do? And it’s these social conversations lead into doing the work and connecting people to the right places and to the right people and I think if you're going to work with Indigenous people you have to understand the importance of relationality and just community and really working to build that partnership. That's how you do the real work. And it might be that, and I'm still doing this even as a person who grew up with Onondaga people. I'm still working on the partnership. And, you know, there was a part of me that was a bit naive, and I thought, oh, like, you know, this is where I grew up. These are people I know. It shouldn't be that hard. And, you know, every day is a new day and I learned something new, and I keep working at it. Some days it feels like work and some days it doesn't. And the days that it, I mean, all days, every day is so rewarding being out there. So, I just, I love the work that I'm doing out there. But I think for people to who want to do better just again prioritize the relationship and I think, you know, like you're asking people from a community that has experienced a lot of trauma to be open and share with you a lot about their families and their lives and um just again understand and hold that with care, empathy, compassion, all the things you should be doing in everyone's care but just care to recognize how much it takes for people to share and be vulnerable with you when they've experienced the intergenerational trauma that these folks have. And I'll also say like, do the work, right? Like try to understand the community and the culture try and understand the role of traditional medicine and ceremonies before you pitch the western medicine you know, you know, you will gain the trust, I think, of folks if you really do put the work in and ask questions. I think a lot of the folks that I work with at least are willing to share and educate me and, not that it's their job to educate me, but that's what building a partnership is. I probably rambled too much.
[Mary Beth Ebersol]
No, not at all. It’s all important.
[Dalton Labarge]
Yeah, I love… Like if there was one thing culturally that could be imported from our worldview and put into practice, it is that practice of reciprocity. Right? Like we are so indebted to reciprocity. As a people, we talk about it in so many ways. It's like it is it's the fundamental thing in our teachings. It is that partnership that we thought we were getting way back when we put out our wompum and we put out our trees and we thought we were taking steps towards this mutual like this mutually and co-occurring sovereignty and autonomy that would help everyone, right? And I think that nowadays we are the inheritors of the legacy of, you know, that not going very well. And that's what we should be undoing. And it's not in big ways. It's soft and subtle ways, like Christina was saying, right? You know, people, I went to something, I went to a conference recently and people were like, well, what can we do for the Seneca's? And I said, well, you could go to Tonawanda and ask them. You know, you could show up in appropriate ways. There are community events. There are community forums. There are ways to make these touch points and to do this engagement and there are ways to go and be a helper, like just to be a set of hands who will make the work lighter. And there's a lot of value in just showing up and not speaking at all and just listening, right? And there's a lot of opportunities to do these things in this region. Certainly, Ganondagan has been a big conduit between our communities and non-native communities to participate in mutual growth and learning. So, I highly recommend if you haven't utilized that resource. It can really help start people on a path of learning and growth. You know, a lot of folks ask me about the traditional medicines and practices part, and I actually have, I don't know if this is a controversial opinion about it, but in a way, as like Western medicine allopathic and osteopathic physicians, it's not within our purview, I think. And I say this as someone who participates in medicine and ceremony, right? And who truly believes that this is a big part of our tradition and our healing and our growth, is that as someone who then works in Western medicine, that's not a part of my allopathic medicine practice. And so, it's these two practices that are at the same height, right? Like I value them in the same way, but I keep them, I think, appropriately separate in the clinical space. And I think that that's not to say that they don't have ways in which they speak to one another, ways in which the clinicians could softly acknowledge and support those practices. But I'm not of the mind that someone would like, prescribe a ceremony from a clinical practice. Because I think that some people, you know, people want that like, well, what could we offer as and it's like, we could offer that in our communities ourselves you know but it's supporting our patients reaching out and making those connections and identifying those strengths and identifying those protective factors within their community. Those are things that we can do as physicians, right? And explaining life altering, non life altering Western medication in ways that are appropriate and that speak to that like, just because you're taking this medication for your blood pressure doesn't mean that you can't continue practicing, you know, X, Y, and Z, right? And having that ability to tend the like, you know, if you think about what we've always strived for is two roads traveling together, right, and this two paths on this road of life that we travel together. And we always wanted to just share the ground that is between those two paths. And it's become the dirt has become kicked up and there's like branches in the paths. There's rocks and things. And I think our job nowadays and something that we can apply to all things that we do is, well, how do we just smooth that path out for both things to be true at once, right? For both things to exist at once and to not use our words or our actions, our behaviors or our clinical recommendations in ways that would interfere with that other path. Be a good path keeper.
[Mary Beth Ebersol]
I was just thinking through. You know how you mentioned the importance of engaging in that community, right? And building those relationships and then the good path keeper. And Christina, what you said about every day is a new day and learning something new. So really appreciate that learning and sharing with us. We're asking each of our guest speakers to recommend a book or a film related to these topics or simply speaks to you and what you think more people should read or watch or attend. What would you recommend?
[Christina Mulé]
I can offer a few things. For folks who work in pediatrics who are working with Indigenous communities or interested in working with Indigenous communities, I really, really recommend the International Meeting on Indigenous Child Health Conference it meets every two years, alternating between the US and Canada. This year we're meeting in Winnipeg. It's just hands down the best conference I've ever attended. It's just jam-packed with just so many useful resources and fantastic presenters from all over the world. And I just can't think of a better place to learn if you're in pediatrics and wanting to contribute to this work. Film recommendations, I have to say, I haven't seen this film yet, but I'm told by trusted folks that Sugar Cane is the best documentary on the boarding school. It's directed by Julian Brave Noise Cat and Emily Cassie. So, it was released just this year. It's traveling right now. It's screening. I just missed the one in Rochester. I'm hoping I can maybe get out to Ithaca, to the Cornell screening, but it received a Sundance Film Festival award so for folks who are able to view that film, I think, you know, if you're interested in learning about the boarding school issues, that'd be a fantastic thing to participate in. And then, finally, for me, book recommendations, if you're learning about indigenous culture, values, preferences, And Grandma Said by Tom Porter is a great book. And I'll just say, I can't stress the importance enough of building community and partnership and For me, I participate in a book club with some Onondaga women and the things I've learned from community members are the things that like don't come up in books and in films and so, you can do work through books and films and conferences but really making those relationships and connections. It's just so important.
[Dalton Labarge]
Christina stole my movie recommendation.
[Christina Mulé]
You saw it, Dalton?
[Dalton Labarge]
Yeah, I went to the Rochester showing.
[Christina Mulé]
I'm jealous.
[Dalton Labarge]
It's an incredible film. I tend to shy away from art and things that engage in the topic. And this was not something that you can shy away from. It is so… It's so deeply personal and it treats the matter and really like comprehensive and delicate way where like you feel the sadness and the laughter and, you know, all of it together. It's an incredible thing. I think it will give audiences a glimpse into like the living legacy of those institutions.
[Mary Beth Ebersol]
Thank you. You've both given me some recommendations and we'll definitely be sharing with our learners, so I just wanted to wrap up. Sincere thank you and appreciation for all the time you spent with us today and with me today and then eventually our listeners. We really I appreciate your time.
[Dalton Labarge]
Yeah, I appreciate it.
[Christina Mulé]
Thanks for having us.
[Mary Beth Ebersol]
Great. Thank you.